SEPTEMBER 11, 2012





THE SPECIAL MEETING of the Port Orange City Council, Town Center CRA Board, and the Riverwalk Realty Negotiating Team was called to order by Mayor Allen Green at 6:00 p.m.


Pledge of Allegiance


Silent Invocation


Roll Call:                    Present:                     Councilman Bob Ford

                                                                        Councilman Donald Burnette

Councilman Dennis Kennedy

                                                                        Vice Mayor Bob Pohlmann

                                                                        Mayor Allen Green

                                                                        CRA Member Ben Talluto

                                                                        CRA Member Suzette Blahnik


                                    Also Present:            Kenneth W. Parker, City Manager

                                                                        Margaret T. Roberts, City Attorney

                                                                        Robin Fenwick, Deputy City Clerk

                                                                        Buddy LaCour, LaCour & Company

Frank Ditmyer, CFO for Port Orange Riverwalk, LLP & LLC



Page 3, Paragraph 6 and 7 pending revisions after policy determination.


1.            Does the City and CRA desire to own the real property interests, (Parcel 3, Parcel 4 in part) in the marina area including the riparian rights and the submerged lands that are leased or deeded to the existing property owner?


Ken Parker, City Manager, advised City Council and the CRA of the policy questions that need to be answered so that he and Margaret Roberts, City Attorney, can continue with negotiations of the Riverwalk RFP. It is being held as a joint meeting because there are properties owned by both entities. Mr. Parker briefly discussed the proposal on the table. He conveyed information to CRA/CC regarding a 9000 sq. ft. portion of parcel #4.  


Ms. Roberts asked if parcel 1 is being considered.  Mr. Parker said no.


Vice Mayor Pohlmann asked if the 9000 sq. ft. property would be leased. Mr. Parker said no, it would be retained by the developer, and pointed out a different area where lease lands would be.


Discussion was held regarding deeded submerged lands.


Councilman Ford asked about owning land and water rights in one spot vs. another. Buddy LaCour said they can but they are conceding to the City/CRA.


Discussion was held regarding parking. Mr. LaCour explained that the comp plan provides objectives that include shared parking. He said they are willing to put the improvements in for a parking lot.


Councilman Ford is concerned with using taxpayer’s money in trade for the unknown.


Mr. LaCour disagrees. He advised that they have filed a site plan that goes hand and hand with the RFP proposal. He says they will pay for the improvements of the temporary parking area. Mr. LaCour said they are opening a marina that will be open to the public and a restaurant open to the public where today there is nothing.


Mayor Green says the trade is for temporary use of parking. Mr. LaCour said they are willing to pay the City 2% from food sales that would go into the parking fund to pay for trash cans, lighting, benches, etc. that is not there now. This offer is part of their proposal.


Member Blahnik said there is no parking to walk the bridge. She would like a better place to park her car when she walks the bridge.


Vice Mayor Pohlmann asked if the Galbreath property was purchased from the family and then leased back. Attorney Roberts confirmed yes. Vice Mayor Pohlmann supports the use of temporary parking in the area. Mr. LaCour reminded them he is paying for the improvements to the parking area.


Councilman Burnette said it is important to have a revenue stream with the parking. He wants to also talk about parcels 8, 9, 12, and 16. Mayor Green asked if he supports shared parking. Councilman Burnette said yes.


Councilman Kennedy asked if the temporary parking is going to be there in the future. Attorney Roberts said not according to the current plan. Councilman Kennedy asked if Mr. LaCour would take care of the maintenance costs of the parking lot. Mr. LaCour said they envisioned it to be paid for by the 2% of the food sales being paid by them to the City.


Mayor Green asked what restaurant is planned. Mr. LaCour explained the building being built per the plans: a Marine Activity building that will be on the 9000 sq. ft. portion, and the Riverboat restaurant. Mayor Green asked how many parking spots they need. Mr. LaCour said 109 by code. The temporary parking area will consist of 50 spots.


Councilman Ford doesn't want the park land to be dominated by parking lots and private businesses. Mr. LaCour explained the rest of the park land is approx. 350,000 sq. ft.


Mayor Green asked Mr. Parker how much parking would be needed if the City was just doing a park. Mr. Parker said it depends how the park is classified. An active park needs more than passive parks.


Policy question #1: Is it acceptable for them to retain parcel #3, #4 in part? Vice Mayor Pohlmann said yes, the City should not get involved. Member Blahnik agrees. Member Talluto said no. Councilman Ford said no. Councilman Kennedy said yes. Councilman Burnette said yes but wants to negotiate a sizeable amount of land south of Herbert St. Mayor Green advised that he will abstain from voting because of previous allegations of a conflict.


Vote on policy question #1: 4-2 in support of the proposer owning parcel #3 and 9000 sq. ft. of parcel #4 (the old Sweetwater’s site).


2.            If yes (the City and CRA desire to own the real property in the marina area, then

Would the City and CRA consider leasing the marina to the developer on a long term lease similar to the Palmer Land Lease?

Palmer owns the buildings and the City owns the land under the buildings.  Palmer pays a land lease payment to the City on an annual basis.  There was a primary term of fifty (50) years with a renewal term included in the land lease. I would see it structured similarly to the Palmer lease with the exception that the private entity is responsible for all taxes, insurance and maintenance related to the real property lease interest.  Palmer is tax exempted that is why I pointed out the tax difference.  The other items in the lease would be similar to the Palmer land lease.


Attorney Roberts said policy question #2 is no longer an issue because the proposer will retain ownership of the marina area.


3.            Does the City and CRA desire to own the deeded submerged lands adjacent to Parcel 4, 5 and 6 and the riparian rights?

Parcel 4 in part is located within the Sweetwater site and includes approximately 9,000 square feet and the deeded submerged lands.  The private developer desires to construct a harbor master building with public restrooms that would be available for the marina use as well as for park use.  The City’s ownership of the riparian rights preserves the public access to and use of the water resource.


Attorney Roberts advised that the City/CRA will own the submerged land on the east and south of the point and that is consistent with previous directions of the City/CRA. The riparian rights will be retained by the City/CRA. Mr. LaCour stated he wants access to a dock to the restaurant boat. He agrees the City/CRA will retain riparian rights to the east and south of the point.


Attorney Roberts asked Mr. LaCour if he wants the riparian rights on the north side of the point. Mr. LaCour said he owns the submerged land already and he doesn't need the riparian rights. Attorney Roberts said the City/CRA want to keep the riparian rights.


Attorney Roberts confirmed item #3. Mayor Green read question #3 as previously provided. Attorney Roberts said the answer is yes, and Mr. LaCour agrees with the transfer of the submerged lands south of the point but he wants the lease agreement as it relates to the marina expansion in the future.


Vote on policy question #3, subject to the leave back agreement: 5-1 in agreement with Member Talluto voting no. Mayor Green abstained from voting.


4.            Does the City and CRA desire to lease to the developer, temporary public parking and storm water on a portion of the Sweetwater site that could be used by the marina, park users and other businesses to be located in the marina?


The lease would provide for relocation of the parking and storm water by the developer with no cost to the City in the event that the City desires to develop the area for other uses.


Attorney Roberts asked if the City/CRA want temporary parking on the point. Mr. LaCour agreed to move the stormwater to south of Herbert St. Mr. Parker advised that Mr. LaCour will also pay to relocate the temporary, shared parking in the future. Mr. LaCour said there is a walkway that goes to the Riverboat that can be eliminated. He will modify that on the site plan submitted to Staff.


Vote on policy question #4: 5-1, Councilman Ford voted no to the temporary parking under a lease. Mayor Green abstained from voting?


Member Talluto asked if there is a limit on the temporary parking. Attorney Roberts said it can be a limit as set by the City/CRA. Attorney Roberts will bring a proposed lease agreement back at a future date.





Page 2, paragraph 4 and 5 pending revisions after policy determination.


6.            Does the City and the CRA want to remove Parcel 8, part of Parcel 9 and Parcel 12 located west of Halifax Drive from the exchange?

These parcels were identified in the Gladding Jackson concept plan for the riverfront park.  If the parcels are removed, then the tax increment revenue potential is reduced.  Parcel 12 includes the Indian mound.  The City and CRA understand that the developer may entomb the mound and a marker could be placed noting the location of the mound.  If the City retains the mound, it can be incorporated into the park as a feature. If the mound is transferred to the developer then it would be entombed and taxable. 


Attorney Roberts provided policy question #5 details relating to the park lands.


Councilman Ford wants the park to be preserved as on the Gladding Jackson map. Mr. Parker said the map provided to Council/CRA shows the property lines. Attorney Roberts advised that the Gladding Jackson map shows other items that are not of issue at this time.


Councilman Ford made a motion to follow the Riverwalk Property Exchange Map that depicts the park, and Seconded by Councilman Burnette.


Mr. Parker said it takes away some of the commercial value and how many square feet can be developed.


Amendment to the Motion made by Councilman Ford asking yes or no about keeping the Midden property.


Councilman Burnette agreed with getting rid of the Midden property. Councilman Ford would like to keep the Midden property because of the historical value. He would like to fit it in the park. Councilman Kennedy would like to keep the property. Vice Mayor Pohlmann agreed with getting rid of the property.  Member Blahnik would like to keep the property. Member Talluto agreed to get rid of the property.


Vote is tied 3-3 and the amendment fails. The main motion was to keep all property. Vote is 6-0 to keep all property as listed on the map. Mayor Green abstained from voting?


Discussion was held regarding the roads on the Gladding Jackson plan.


Mayor Green asked Mr. LaCour if they would/could do a plaque telling what the property was. Mr. LaCour said yes and suggested that the City/CRA make it part of the park as well, and include the Battle of Dunlawton, the Spanish/Indian Wars, etc.


Page 4, paragraph 9 pending revisions after policy determination.


7.            Does the City and CRA wish to obtain the appraisal prior to the execution of the contract?


If the developers’ revisions to the paragraph are included, then the city will be required to obtain the appraisals prior to the execution of the contract and at least 60 additional days will be needed before the terms can be finalized.  All of the foregoing policy considerations will have to be finalized and the applicable appraisals will have to be obtained.  Without the appraisals, the City and the CRA cannot determine whether the City and the CRA will be obligated to pay a cash differential in order to complete the transaction.  Before signing the contract, the financial impacts will have to be determined, budgeted and appropriated.


Attorney Roberts explained the values of the park land vs. developers land and the need for the appraisals. It is required by the City’s Code for the City/CRA to do two appraisals prior to paying cash during a land transaction.

All agreed to authorize Staff to order two appraisals.

Councilman Burnette wants to make sure we are far enough in the process so that the money isn't wasted. Mr. LaCour believes the actions tonight might have tipped the value so that the City would owe money.

Ted Noftall asked for the type of appraisal that was agreed upon. Attorney Roberts responded fair market value appraisal.


Member Talluto asked for a new map showing the changes from this meeting. Mr. Parker said Staff will provide same.


Mayor Green asked for any further comments of the Council, CRA, or public; there were none.



ADJOURNMENT:    7:58 p.m.



                                                                                    Mayor Allen Green

                                                                                    Port Orange City Council





Kenneth W. Parker, City Manager




                                                                                    Chairman Allen Green

                                                                                    Town Center CRA